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- Wanna start your own carpentry business and scale it past $500,000 a year? Daniel Westbrook from Westbrook
Carpentry and Millwork achieved those numbers by leveraging his legacy of being a third generation craftsmen. (upbeat music) Today we'll be speaking to Daniel who turned to the carpentry business after starting four other businesses in the real estate and construction industries. He's become a household name in Seattle as he's frequently featured in magazines like the Master Builders Magazine, various TV shows and commercials. What equipment is must have? - [Daniel] This is the number one tool that most shops end up getting.
- How do you estimate restoration projects? - Your profit margins are more too. - What did it cost you to get going? - Well, the advantage is that you can do more volume of business. - In this episode, he'll share with you how you too can start a carpentry business, how he sees growth differently, how he suggests that everyone should communicate with their audience and clients, and everything else that made his business successful. - Create a website that expresses that very simply. That's number one. - For somebody who's just starting out, what do you think they should be thinking in terms of cost to operate monthly? All right, we're gonna give you guys an inside look into Daniel's truck and how you set it up.
If you're overworking, follow these steps to live a better life. - It is incredible software. I really highly recommend using it. - All right you guys, without further ado, let's go talk to the man, Daniel. And before we do that, like the video, subscribe to our channel, we appreciate your support. Let's dive into it. What a cool looking shop. Daniel, good morning. - Hey, Paul. How you doing? - Doing well. Good to meet you. - It's good to meet you.
- Likewise. - What's happening? (upbeat music) - Tell us about when you started, why you started Westbrook Millwork? - Well, this particular business started in 2006. - Okay. - And obviously this isn't my first business and I've had businesses before, but this is sort of a culmination of career and various businesses up until that point. - Did you have any prior experience in the carpentry industry when you started this up? - Yeah. Well, I'm a third generation carpenter. Third generation business owner. It's just was what I was meant to be doing. - That's incredible. You've got plenty of experience passed onto you then, right? - Yeah, I did. I worked with my dad. I worked with my granddad. I worked with plenty of the old school master craftsmen that came out of the old days. And I still carry that with me today in the modern era, which is one of the reasons why I'm really focused on this kind of work today because it's a kind of a talent that takes a long time to learn. And it's not the usual thing. So I'm a little bit of a throwback as far as that goes.
(upbeat music) - Let's talk about your revenue, where it is today as it compares to last year. And are you growing month by month? - So my revenue now is probably pretty minimal because I made a concerted effort to sort of slow my business down. So I try to keep it around anywhere between 20 and 40K a month. - Okay. - That's about as minimal as I can go. Did I answer your second question, am I growing? - Yeah. - I'm growing inside. - Okay. - Okay. My business is obviously on idle, but there's also personal growth that needs to happen. And you need to take the time to do that. I think it's really, really important. Remodeling is one of those things where it's a good profitable business, but it really depends on how you approach and you engineer your jobs. How fast you execute, how well do you execute? And I know you're looking for a specific number, but your percentage markets should be anywhere between 35% and 65%. (upbeat music) - When you got started in 2006, Daniel, what did it cost you to get going? And what would it be today for someone who wants to get into this business specifically, you think? What should they budget? - Well, I already had tools at the time.
- Okay. - So if you're talking in terms of costs, there was education, there's tooling, but if you're starting fresh in the business, chances are you've already got tools. Chances are, if you're interested in this. As far as cost goes, you really need to pay attention to, your costs in your office stuff, your computer, whatever programming you're using, website costs. You're gonna end up spending two to five grand for a simple website anyway. So if you really wanting to start right, you're probably gonna need to invest not only a whole lot of time, but also probably around 10 grand.
- 10 grand, okay. - Just to barely get your business started. (upbeat music) - What does it cost you to run your business at this level on a monthly basis? And what's the most expensive thing a month? - The most expensive thing every month is labor. - Just labor, okay. - Just what I pay myself. I work for my company and so that's the most expensive thing. At this point with my business sort of more on an idle mode, my expenses are pretty low. If my truck is paid off, my tools are paid off. And I'm assuming what you mean by expense it's not saw blades or material or anything like that. 'Cause those are charged to the job. Those go into each job. - They are? Okay, I didn't know that. So whenever you take a job you factor in, some tool expenses in there? - Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh sure, oh yeah. Not tools per se, but blades, cutter knife. - Whatever gets used up and abused. - Sure, sure, yeah.
- Okay, that makes sense. For somebody who's just starting out, what do you think they should be thinking in terms of cost to operate monthly and how does that structure? - Well, labor obviously, employee labors, is gonna be your most expensive. Aside from that it's tooling up. But once you have your tools, once you have what you need to do your projects the rest of it is pretty much what it cost to do the job, which is part of the estimate of the job. (upbeat music) - Daniel, you've owed other businesses before. I'm curious, what did you do different this time around? And did that experience help you in growing this venture? - Yeah, it's a culmination of experience that allowed me to really focus and refine and simplify my branding.
- That's it? - Yeah. That's it. I mean, a talent is something that you practice and continue on, right? - Right. - But businesses before are kind of a training and it just almost seems like that it helps you to understand and simplify your marketing, your branding, who you are and what you do. - Okay. - It's really that simple. - That's it. Guys, stay tuned. Keep watching the video. Hack from Daniel in terms of his success and how he continues to grow and be successful in this particular business as well. (upbeat music) All right, we're gonna give you guys an inside look into Daniel's truck and how you set it up, why and so forth. So give us a tour. - Well, this is my latest rig and it took me a long time to design this thing. Basically it was purchased as a cabin chassis and then this is basically a utility body. And I designed it to be able to carry everything I need out in the field. - This looks solid. What did it cost you to get this whole setup? - Well this whole setup was about 75? - 75 hundred? - 75 grand.
- Oh, I was gonna say. (Daniel laughs) That would've been a steal. Okay, good. That's more like it. - So I have access. Now, I don't have all my tools in here. I'm not packed tight right now because I have a lot of tools unloaded in my shop. But I've got access to the side. I've got tools, all my field tools that I'm gonna need for doing restorative work. I have things tucked away. My knee pads, my carpenter bags, all of that. And obviously, I don't wanna forget the rack on top, which is really important as well. What's really cool about this truck is that everything's...
In Seattle it rains a lot. So you really need to have everything protected. So this is what this truck does and I've got my glass rack and everything is completely organized in here. And I can get this thing packed pretty tight. I can carry my material. This is where I carry those windows. - Windows, yeah. - Lumber and everything. - Okay. (upbeat music) - Let's talk about ad spent. What are you doing? Where are you? What platforms are you using? How much are you spending? - I'm using all the social media platforms and I do not spend money on those. - You don't, okay. - I specifically spend money on Google AdWords and I use the Keywords. I use Google AdWords and I spend right now anywhere between three and $500 a month. - Okay. What kind of Keywords are really bringing in the returns? - Historic window restoration, historic front porch, staircase, custom cabinetry, those kinds of things that really kind of fit with what people need in this area. - Are you doing that yourself as far as Google AdWords? - Yes.
- Okay, not hiring anyone? (Daniel laughs) - I've been working with Google AdWords for years and it is an incredible software. I really highly recommend using it because if you're advertising on house or if you're advertising on Porch.com, what do you think that those guys are doing? They're buying big blocks of Google AdWords. And yet you're having to go through their platforms. So why not present your own website and learn how to use Google AdWords? It's complicated, but if I can do it, you can do it. (upbeat music) - Let's talk about equipment. For somebody watching who wants to get into the carpentry industry in general, like what equipment is must have? And let's just dive into a little bit of cost and things like that. - Yeah, sure. I think that as far as equipment is concerned, you've gotta really identify what it is that you're gonna do because there's a wide variety of trades. - Okay. - So, if you're gonna be in the field a lot, you're not looking at shop work you need to really start with obviously a set of construction bags to wear, skill saw, really depends on what you're doing.
So identify that and start with the smaller tools that you're gonna need to be able to do your service work, to be able to do your craft onsite. And of course I highly, highly, highly recommend a pickup truck or a van to be able to securely carry your tools and keep them nice and organized for your daily work. - You guys, if you're enjoying this video, we would appreciate if you show Daniel support by liking the videos, subscribing to our channel, we appreciate you watching. (upbeat music) Let's talk about the most important skill set that you need for this industry.
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If I lack certain ones, how do I improve on that? - Yeah. So, I think one of the most important skill sets obviously is a work ethic just like with any job. And if you're really getting into carpentry, then I would say that learning how to use a skill saw, learning how to use your tools and what they're capable of doing and visualizing where you can go with them. But also I would add that it's important that you get involved with an employer who sees that you have drive and who's gonna give you work that's gonna stretch your abilities. If you're a trim carpenter, and all you're doing is say trim on the inside of a house.
It is also good to understand how the house is framed, how the structure is, it's gonna help you be a better finish person, and these types of things. And if you're gonna be discovering those, obviously YouTube is awesome. Now, not all the information is right. You're gonna have to use some little discernment on dicing that out. But surrounding yourself with professionals that are working in the industry I highly recommend doing that. (upbeat music) On this side I keep a lot of my material. I've got screws, I've got- - Sand paper.
- Close that, get that out of the way. But you can see I've got, look at how much screws and drill bits and everything, all kinds of nail guns, sanding equipment. Now, again, this is usually packed full. I've got a lot of stuff in the shop right now. It's just easy access to everything. - [Paul] Absolutely. - And obviously, I've had a lot of vehicles before this, but this has been my latest culmination of what I do and also staying completely organized all the time. - You wouldn't wanna go too fast on a speed bump, right? Everything just goes midair. - Yeah, you have to drive a little bit like an old granny, just take it easy. Let the traffic go by, you'll get there. But once you're there, dude, it's really great having everything with you all the time.
- And you've got a pretty cool looking brand really on your truck. How important do you think this is for you? Like you could've went all labels. - I get calls from this. People say, "Hey, I saw your truck at wherever and I took a photo of the side of your truck. And I thought I'd give you a call and would you like to come and take a look at my project." (upbeat music) - Question in terms of the skill that an entrepreneur absolutely needs to have, like what's been influential in your business and your growth as well, Daniel? - Well, I think there's a little difference between entrepreneur and business ownership.
Business owner is business owner, entrepreneur is somebody who has a mindset who is a creative mindset looking ahead and being proactive. I think a proactive mindset in the ideas that you have, and don't be afraid to test your ideas out in the marketplace and see where they go. And that I say that that's the number one thing. That's a kind of a skill set, takes a little bit of guts, but if you can do that and you can discover what works and what doesn't work, and eventually you're gonna find your path. (upbeat music) - How do you estimate restoration projects? Is there a process you follow? - Yeah. - Is it simple, time plus material? And any tool, system, software you use to help you get that right number? - Yes. So I don't use an estimating software. There's no way that I can do that with what I do 'cause it's too unique, it's too artisan.
But I do use, I have pre-written Word docs and I identify all the things that I normally do with each project. So that's all pre-written in there. I use a system where I view photos from a client who just inquire, "Send me some photos so I can see what you have." And I can identify whether it's something I wanna do or not. Because these days, if I'm not working in my shop or on somebody's house and I have to pull off and go look at another job, I'm not making revenue because this is a labor-based business and it's just me.
So I charge for looking at projects. - You do? Okay. Yes. Which includes also an estimate. And I'm giving them my proprietary knowledge. It's not like I'm just charging them to show up. I'm charging them for an hour of my time at their home that is 100% access to my knowledge and my mind. - What's the charge? - 300 bucks. - Okay. - But that also includes write-up of an estimate, which is another hour or two after that. What would you do with what you know now to get going? - Yeah, I would say two things. Number one is identify what your brand is. Identify what you do and create a website that expresses that very simply, that's number one. Be online, do your social media, focus on your business, focusing on what you do. And then I would also say that as far as equipment goes, start simple. Don't try to jump in and do something that's beyond what you're capable of doing. You got to work up to it. What do you do on Instagram and Facebook specifically? - I just post photos of my jobs.
- How often? Is it important? - Usually once a week. - Just one post a week? - Just do one post a week. - It's not a lot. - It's not a lot, but it's only me. I don't have a whole office staff that I can just produce a post every day. - Just two arms, right? - And I find that I have people, I have clients that follow me. I have other master craftsman we follow each other. And so it's not about doing a post every day. It's kind of more about checking in with a friend and seeing what's going on. - Okay. - And I encourage my clients to kind of be connected with me on Instagram because they can see what's going on, especially clients who are waiting in line.
I mean, I've got some clients that are waiting a year out, so they wanna know, "Well what's going on with Westbrook?" So they can go on my Instagram and they can kind of see what's been going on. That's that's the beauty of social media. Well, why don't we go in the shop and show us maybe some of the key tools and how you set things up, show our audience? - Sure, sure. My shop is a work in progress, as everything always is. The shop here is, I don't know, 40 foot by 40 foot, of course I've invested in band saws, table saws, shapers. I've got planar molders. - Tell us more about the equipment and kind of what it costs and where I would find it as well.
- So one of my favorite pieces of equipment is the Woodmaster planer molder. It's this machine right here. And a planer essentially is a thickness planer, okay. So you'll put wood in on one end, the other end, it comes out and there's a blade that plains it down and makes it adjustable, it goes up and down so you can plain layers off, but it's also a molder. And what a molder does is that it creates moldings. And these are knives that are specifically made for particular kind of molding, which I do a lot of is matching. See that? - Oh wow. So it will create that kind of mold? - Yes. So this was a custom made. This was a custom made knife to match molding that I had on a specific project. - Makes sense. - So this is something that would get actually charged to the project to have this made, have it shipped, install it in here and run your molder. - So did you use CAD designer to do that or did you do that yourself? - No, the companies, what you do is you provide them with a piece or a scribe of the drawing, of the piece of millwork that you're matching.
- And they'll do that? - And they'll do that. - What would it cost to get this custom made? - It probably starts around 500 bucks. - Whoa. Okay. So we're not talking 50, 30 bucks. - No, no, no. What are the advantages or disadvantages with your experience of having employees, not having employees and so forth? - Well, the advantage is that you can do more volume of business. I mean, the whole idea of having employees is to make their lives better and your business more profitable. You're doing more volume. You can do more complicated jobs. You can do bigger projects. I mean, obviously working alone as I do right now, I can't do larger jobs that I used to do. I mean, you need your hands-on people to help you. The disadvantages are employees have a lot of liabilities around them from a business owner stand point.
- Especially in your industry with so many blades and stuff. - Well, not just injury but these days, you've got to make sure you're paying attention to harness volume where you can take care of your employees if they're sick. That you're giving them their vacation pay, their 401k, those aren't necessarily liabilities, but it helps to have your business volume in order to provide that package for them. So I think a disadvantage is just more once you have employees you need to make sure you have the volume of work to keep them busy. The beauty of what I'm doing right now, as I don't have to worry about that.
I kind of focus on what I'm doing. And to me right now, that's an advantage, but employees are not a bad thing. They're are a part of doing business. Talk to us about the insurance that you need to have, and have you ever messed up anything that you were restoring as well and how you took care of that? - Yeah, so actually it's really simple as a remodel contractor, which is basically what I am. In Washington State, you're required to have a liability insurance, you're required to have a bond. So it depends on what you're doing.
In my case, it's pretty standard insurance. - It's nothing unusual? - It's nothing unusual. But the second part of your question, take for instance, this window here. So let's say I break the glass in this. - Right, what happens? - I know how to fix it. I know how to put it back together. And it is part of the expectation with the client that, "Look, I am working on this on a T&M, time and material basis. I can't give you a solid estimate." I do my best not to break anything, but sometimes in the course of doing things, you do break things. Now in remodel, there's a clause in my contract, that's an ancillary kind of a collateral damage thing. So if you're doing a kitchen remodel and a year later, the customer notices that some of their doors upstairs don't quite close.
Well, when you remodeling a building, there's agitation in the rest of the building. So again, it's about an expectation and understanding, "Look, if we're gonna spend six months or eight months in your home, we're creating a lot of agitation in a wooden structure." So you could end up with seeing cracks on the other side of the wall that you're working, that type of thing. These are the things that you've got to learn to put in your contracts and in your estimates in order to make sure that you're having this conversation about these expectations. The table saw is one of the most versatile tools in the shop. - You can do a lot with it? - You can do a lot.
It's I would say just about as versatile as the band saws, you can do a lot with the table. So this is the number one tool that most shops end up getting. This is our first tool usually. - (indistinct) - Yeah, so this saw go up and down here. - That's the other one, okay. - That one will tip the blade. - Okay. - And of course I have a feed table here so that if I'm ripping sheet goods, I can support it off of this table, which is- - It's a good trick. - And you know one thing I would have to say that in the shop one of the most valuable things you can have is have your equipment on wheels.
- Right. In my case, since I'm doing so many different unique things, I have to reset my shop to do a very specific task. So having tools on wheels is- - Game changer. - Awesome for me. Let's talk about the seasonality of this business, Daniel, even, I mean, doesn't even apply. Do you have busy months, slow month? What is that- - There's a cycle, especially here in the Northwest, with the rainy season. There's a cycle, but we can stay busy all year round. It's not like you go dead. It's just that when you're in the winter time, you're paying attention to covering your project from the weather or working inside. And we have ways in the Northwest to deal with that. Right now I'm booked out about a year and a half. I've been booked out about two years. But again, you're always developing projects, even as a general contractor, you're developing projects sometimes one or two years out 'cause it takes a while to get permits.
And in my case, what I'm doing is so rare, people are just willing to wait to work with me because I have a pretty, pretty solid reputation in the greater Seattle area. So you just cleaning out the seams here. - Is that what you're doing here? - In this particular case, this is a leaded glass window. It's been beat by the weather over the years. This one is in relatively good shape. And so what I'm doing is taking out all the loose glazing, I'm loosening up the sash to try to get it back together again, I'll be putting plugs in here. And so let me show you, what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna kind of slowly take out this bottom rail 'cause I wanna see if it's a good shape or not.
And I gotta be really careful of this leaded glass. So it just takes a little bit of- - I was going to say, precision here is important. - A little bit of coaxing because if you don't you're gonna be repairing the glass, which does happen. So there is a bottom rail for a historic window sash. And I don't know if you can see the profile with the camera, but that gives you an idea of what it looks like. - Okay. - And so what I'm seeing here is that this is actually in pretty good shape.
I mean, if you take a look, I don't know if you wanna touch that. - That's dry. - You see how dry it is. You see how solid it is. So really it's in pretty good shape. So that allows me to identify that it's okay. I get out all of the crud and everything and I'll put it back together. - (indistinct) - Okay, which I've already cleaned it up. What are the profit margins, Daniel for like stuff like this? - Well, it depends on how you measure profit. - So what's your clean take home after everything? - Let's say if I'm doing say 250K this year, my take home is probably around 150 to 175. So not too bad.
- Yeah, that's pretty good. - If I'm doing kitchen remodeling and I'm GCing and I have employees, then it's way more than that. Way more. - Way more, the profit margins way more? - Take home pay. - Take home pay, okay. Obviously you're doing bigger jobs. - Your profit margins for more too. - Okay. - Because this business doing what I do now, this is a labor-based business. I'm not selling subcontractors. I'm not selling a whole lot of material. As the GC selling subs and material, gosh, that could be four or $500,000 a year. Plus your percentage on top of that, which is anywhere between 35 and 65%. So start doing the numbers, which is going back to your earlier question, crunch the numbers, understand business and understand how your numbers work.
- Right. As we're talking about this guys, check out our podcast. We dive into deeper, more specific questions with entrepreneurs and business owners like Daniel. So check it out at uplift.com/podcast. Let's talk about mistakes. People love hearing what mistakes other businesses owners do. - I've made a lot of mistakes. (Daniel laughs) - Share with us what mistakes you've made and what would you do differently if you can go back and do it again? - So I had a client once years ago that ordered cabinets, a specific size. The cabinets for the kitchen came higher and I went ahead and I install them. And she discovered that, oh, I wanted my cabinets at this height. - Okay. - That wasn't part of the contract, I had to rip all the cabinets out, lower them down, put them back in, probably cost me about 15 to $20,000. - Ouch. The lesson I would say is when you are working with your client make sure that you have your expectations and your protocols before you order and make sure everybody's on the same page. You make sure that everybody signs the paperwork.
So everybody is on the know of what is going to happen. Don't just assume. There is no assumption that is going to work in your favor. - What is that term to have? Assumptions is the mother- (Paul laughs) - An ass out of you and me. (Daniel laughs) (upbeat music) - Let's talk about the competitiveness of the millwork, carpentry, GC industry, and how do you stand out from your competition? - It's pretty competitive. - It is, okay. - It's pretty competitive. You have people coming into the industries that under price things to make it a little harder for those of us, who've been around a long time and understand what it costs to do things. So we have to deal with that. For me, I really kind of identified the unique jobs that I'm perfectly suited to do. And that's how I can stand out.
Obviously, your branding is important. That's really what makes you stand out. - Got you. - It should be unique to you and the culture of your business. - So not being a Jack of all trades, but being a master of one or two. - You should be very specific and identify your niche and what it is that you do. - That's awesome advice. - The way I stand apart is I look at myself as not a cookie cutter contractor, but somebody who can do a lot of different things that are quite rare.
Kind of the cookie dough that's left over after cutting out all of the cookies and I'm all of the dough in between this leftover that doesn't fit the cookie cutter. What's your biggest challenge right now in your business today? - I don't really have a challenge. I have to go back several years where my biggest challenge was that the business owned me. I was doing 80 hours a week. I was running around like crazy. And the biggest challenge was finding time to just diffuse and rest. But several years later I have found a way to do that. And that's why I've kind of got my business in sort of lowered my volume, if you will. Right. So you went like half a million buck to lower by choice? - I was doing way more than that. I was probably doing over a million dollars a year in revenue. - Wow. - But that's the beauty of doing what I do. I'm a hands-on contractor. So I can crank up my business and do as much volume as I want or I can dial it back so that I can create more time for myself.
And I can do that within 18 months. So, the freedom of that is so beautiful to me. - Yeah, work-life balance super important. - Absolutely. You went from more of a general contractor to more hands-on exclusive I would say stuff like that. - Yeah. - Why the switch? What drove you to do that? And what's the difference between the two? - Well, I was GCing and also doing the work in the field with my crew and my subcontractors. I was probably working in excess of 80 hours a week at least. I didn't have any time for myself. Obviously I've been in the business for a long time and I just decided, "You know what? Look, I'm self-employed, I'm a business owner. I can do whatever I want with my business." - Amen to that. - And I needed to kind of do some soul searching. I needed to slow down. I needed to kind of say, "Wait a minute, I need to adjust and I need to really start to focus on a genuine need." And I kind of got to the point where I asked the question, do I own my business or does the business own me? That's part of the factor of business success.
It's not just about money. It's not just about the volume of business. It's also about what your business can give you in here and what is in here that you can give to your business. - So you work 80 hours back in the day, where are you at now in terms of how much time you spend working? Just curious. - Probably these days I work anywhere between 10 hours a week and 40. - Okay. So give us a bullet point of what you need to do to go from 80 hours overworking to 16 or your choice of whatever. - So what I did is I laid off my people. - Okay. - I redid my website. Really kind of started to focus on some things that I wanted to do. I changed out my Google AdWords and my Keywords to really kind of focus on that.
I pulled out of associations like the Master Builders Association. I pulled out of all the association dues because I knew I was lowering the revenue of my business. I needed to lower the expenses. So that's a big important factor. You can't just be paying out all of these ancillary expenses. And I knew it wasn't gonna be doing general contracting push and started to kind of just focus in on this master carpentry restoration kind of millwork on historic homes. - There you go. If you're overworking, follow these steps to live a better life. All right, guys, this is the hack time from Daniel. Something that'll be very helpful to you and your business. So I have to show you what I did. - Okay. - Dust control is like totally important on the job, in the shop, everywhere else. So I have my saw set up here and you can see that I've got this weird little contraption that I made, and this is just kind of a temporary thing. You don't want dust all around your shop or in somebody's house when you're doing your remodel or whatever, it's really important.
- So you can take this and put it inside somebody's house? - Sure, sure. - Just making sure, okay. - But what I did for the shop temporarily right now, I've got this fan here which has just, got a four inch hose that sucking out of the hole back out here. Then I have my Festool vacuum connected to the front of the fan. So, now essentially I've got two so that I can increase the strength of the suction. So there's kind of a quick farmer John hack job- - But it works? - But it works.
So check this out. - Okay. - Now we'll just gonna let it kind of... You can hear that thing crank up? - Right. - Okay. Now, are you seeing any dust come out of there? - A little bit. - Not much. - Everything else went back. - So just don't be afraid to use different tools to put stuff together to make it work the way you need it to work. And remember, I talked about that before? - That's it, right? That's the hack. - That's a quick hack. Daniel, let's talk about what's next for Westbrook Carpentry and Millwork. Where do you see the business in the near future? - Yeah, well, where I would like to grow it out is to really kind of focus on my hands-on craft. That's my whole thing right now, is to elevate my craft as a practice. And there's never any end point. I've been called a master carpenter, but there's no master. You just keep going to the next level, the next level.
So I'm really focusing on that. The overall, I would like to have more clients come out to my shop, start to back away further and further into my shop rather than doing less field work, more shop work. - You just wanna stay close to home, don't you? I kinda wanna stay close to home. I've been doing this a long time. It's on my property. So I used to have a farm here and I used to sell products out of my farm, stand out front. And I'd like to revamp that and again, do something like that or do some e-commerce business of stuff that I can make out of my shop.
And I have some ideas for that, which I'm probably not gonna share with you right now. - Okay. Well, you guys, that's a wrap of us meeting with the owner, Daniel of Westbrook Carpentry and Millwork. What an incredible unique exclusive thing that he does, is a true craftsmen, third generational. I hope you guys took away a lot of advice , tips, hack, tricks. We want you to succeed in this industry. Thank you .
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